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READ MORE: Rooney Mara Explains Why ‘Carol’ is Not a Political Film
So you’re watching every detail and every sign for a clue as to where you stand. And the mind is in this extremely productive state that is very much like the criminal mind, imagining every outcome and every possible scenario that could you get caught. And in that way it does an extremely good job of linking something extremely universal to something sort of transgressive.
And in this case we do the same thing, but you also shift point of views by the end of “Carol,” so by the time we come back, it’s no longer Therese that’s in the vulnerable position, but Carol.
But Sandy did discuss with Brian Selznick who would be the best person to do “Wonderstruck,” so Brian sent his own first adaptation of one his books to me.
And when she said yes [to “Velvet Goldmine”] I felt liked I’d just cast my lead in the film and just started jumping up and down on the bed in the hotel with hysterical glee. And I was so…right. [laughs] to feel that way. It was in many ways my lead. It was the thing that brought together all these disparate characters and their desires and fantasies. And we took the language of glam rock and applied it to a film in that we reinvented our own parallel universe for the world and our own theatrical allegory for 20th century design and style, and you see that in mashups of different costume eras that combine in different scenes of the movie for specific reasons. So the ’70s is a constant presence, but the ’70s is always incorporating the ’20s or the ’40s or the ’50s, as the ’70s did, but in a very overt and exuberant way in “Velvet Goldmine.”
And in other films it’s been much more subdued and restrained and, for lack of a better word, naturalistic, approach like in “Carol.”
I think there’s so much about these two women about class, power and psychology that’s is communicated through clothes and colors.
I think that’s absolutely true, but there’s also something about permeations of class that are also built into aspects that women learn to present as women. In the book at least, you learn that Carol wasn’t born into the class that she married into with Harge, but she certainly mastered the presentation of her beauty and of her womanliness, of her style and self-presentation in a way that made her exactly what that class seeks out in terms of mother and wife and socialite.
In a way, you almost see some of that happening that in a parallel sense, maybe a slightly more reduced way, with Therese, from the beginning to the end. Where she does begin to occupy and incorporate aspects of Carol’s knowledge of how to present herself to the world and how to move and how to dress and how to behave as a “woman” in a way that parallels her own steps towards the beginning of a career.
I’m curious about that because it’s a love relationship but there’s also this sense of apprenticeship, of how to be a woman.
Sure.
And it’s not always necessarily a love relationship. But do you think that being a same sex relationship lends itself more to that theme, of apprenticing her femininity or womanhood?
Not necessarily, in fact I think that might be one of the aspects of “Carol” that differs from possibly other places a story of lesbian love might take place, even in the 1950s. Whoever those women are who Therese looks at in the record store and who make her in some sense feel a kind of aversion, and an absolute moment of wanting to distinguish herself from that kind of representation of difference. What you see is that those women and their rejection of traditional feminine garb and manners and self-presentation, that’s a different story. And that takes place in a different world than “Carol,” so you’re learning about women who are still very much codified by the society.
Did that draw you to it? I feel like that’s a common theme in your films, that theme of conformity?
I like that about this story. I think it just meant that both women were less equipped for what they were going to encounter, in meeting each other, particularly Therese meeting Carol.
Like in the novel, Therese is an aspiring stage designer, and that immediately puts her just a little closer to Bohemia and Greenwich Village life in the early 1950s, a place where you might imagine she would encounter different life choices and people rejecting different notions of femininity or the grey flannel suit for the traditional man. Just different sort of clothes, classes and identities that allowed themselves to be played out and were not filtered. And I feel like we’ve sort of seen that depicted in films, and I kind of like showing people who have less exposure to alternative ways of being or identifying.
Yeah. And naturalism is artificial. It’s all artificial.
“Carol” is in limited release.
READ MORE: Review: Todd Haynes’ ‘Carol’ is a Masterful Lesbian Romance Starring Cate Blanchett and Rooney Mara
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